Terni Carcano Rifle Serial Numbers
Terni was the national armory of Italy- you likely have an Italian Carcano military rifle- but we can't tell you more without more information. Sorry- Read More The rifle, made in the Terni arsenal in 1940 and bearing the serial number C2766, was equipped for an extra $7 with an inexpensive new 4x18 Japanese telescopic sight, on a sheet metal. I've read after WWI a lot of M91 rifles were cut down to carbine length and designated the M91/24. This was done in the Terni arsenal between 1922 to 1928 or 1929 and stamped on the barrel next to the original manufacture date. My rifle does not have this stamp yet is still in carbine condition. Also the rear sights were left with rifle rear. The barrel was bored out to 7.35mm in 1939 at Terni and re-issued and numbered to this rifle. This is the first time I have ever seen a re-worked and re-issued Carcano although such pieces are quite common among the rifles of other nations. 4 shows the original 1917 serial number above and the 1939 serial number below. Top of the chamber has Terni stamped on the top. On the left side of the stock is a crown marking in a rectangle and the letter A with 40 below it. 'AK' is stamped under the crown markings. Serial number is 4 digits. The top of the flat says TERNI, The right says 1930 VIII, and the right side flat says FP. The left flat says G5 243 (serial number?, and the left side flat has an oval stamp that probably is an identification mark, that is identifiable if I knew what it was. The serial numbers on these guns are a letter from A to N followed by four digits. There is some controversy over the number of these rifles that were produced, since the number of letters times 9999 far exceeds the generally-accepted production figure of 60,000. The rifles are almost devoid of any other markings. Regardless of Bloomgarden's conviction that each Carcano made bore a unique serial number, the fact is that several Carcanos may have carried the serial number 2766 with or without the 'C' prefix. After the war Carcano rifles and carbines found their way back to the RE Terni plant by the thousand.
1941 Model 1891/41 Carcano Infantry Rifle (marked for accuracy)(Modello M91/41 Fucile Tiro a Segno Nazionale)
(Click PIC to Enlarge)
Caliber: ............ 6.5 x 52mm Carcano
Rifling & Twist: ....... 4 groove, right hand twist.
Barrel Length: ........ 27.2 in. (692mm)
Overall Length: ....... 46 in. (1168 mm)
Weight: ............ 8.5 lbs. (3.9kg)
Magazine Capacity: .... 6
Qty Mfg: ............ Armageurra Cremona - 240,000
.................. Fabbrica Armi di Terni - 580,000
Source: ............ The Carcano: Italy's Military Rifle by Hobbs, Richard J. C1996, 2nd ed. 1997, surplusrifle.com
Carcano Model Identification
1941 Model 1891/41 Carcano Infantry Rifle
(53 picture virtual tour)
Observations:
(by 'Claven2')Note: Pics of rifle provided courtesy of Milsurps.com moderator Claven2.
Following France's adoption of the Model 1886 Lebel and its accompanying revolutionary small-bore, high velocity 8mm Lebel cartridge, the whole of Europe (and indeed the world) jumped into an arms race to replace their huge inventories of older, often single-loaded, large caliber, low velocity arms. Italy was no exception. In the late 1880's, the Italian were mostly equipping their armed forces with the venerable M1870 and M1870/87 Vetterli(-Vitali)s and they were no match for the newer high-velocity repeating rifles. Sensibly, a replacement was sought and a commission was formed to exhaustively test proposed replacement arms.
In 1891, the commission decided to combine an Italian state factory rifle model made by the Torino factory with the German Mod. 1888 charger-loaded central magazine of Mannlicher origin and to pay Ferdinand Ritter von Mannlicher the appropriate royalties (300,000 Lire). The new Modelo 1891 Fucile incorporated a gain twist barrel to reduce throat erosion when using Cordite and the early Dynamit Nobel propellants which burned excessively hot. Improvements in propellant design would render this feature unnecessary on future models.
At the time of its adoption, the Carcano was a revolutionary rifle. It had, at the time, the smallest caliber of any military rifle and held six shots in a rapidly changeable charger clip, while most of its contemporaries used either a tubular magazine of a 5 round charger clip. It was robust and the bolt could be disassembled without any tools. The Carcano M1891 gave excellent service throughout the First Word War where Italy participated on the Allied side, fighting mainly against Austria.
By the time of the Second World War, not much about the Carcano had changed. Some shorter versions of the Carcano rifle were in service and the rapid onset of the war had shelved Italy's plans to update the rifle's caliber to 7,35x51. Despite the fact that the older M1891 infantry rifle was mostly being replaced by M1891/38 series carbines, performance in North African campaigns convinced fascist Italy to begin manufacturing the longer type infantry rifle once more. This led to the adoption of the M1891/41 Fucile as pictured above. Aside from a more compact rear sight, standard non-progressive rifling, and a barrel slightly shorter than the older infantry rifle, the 1941 adaptation is little changed from the pre-WW1 era weapon - it was even issued with the same bayonet.
Unlike in the first world war, Italy did not issue scoped sniper rifles during the Second World War for sniping. Instead, those rifles demonstrating above average accuracy were stamped with the Tiro a Segno Nazionale marking consisting of two crossed rifles superimposing a bulls-eye target stamped on barrel. The best marksmen in Italian units were able to select from these more accurate rifles to act in the sniping role in the field. The above rifle is one such example and the marking can be seen in the gallery on the barrel shank.
Two patterns of sling were commonly issued with the 1941 version of the Infantry rifle. The first pattern is virtually identical to a WW1 era sling with tear-dropped shaped eye holes and brass stud keepers. The second type is a close copy of the German K98k sling as depicted on the above rifle.
The M1891/41 rifle was only manufactured at two arsenals, R.E. Terni (aka Terni, FAT) from 1941 to 1945 and Armaguerra Cremona from 1941 to 1944.
Collector's Comments and Feedback:
1. Most of the Carcano 1891/41 rifles encountered on the surplus market today were imported to North America in the 1960's. After the Second World War, Italy refurbished most of the rifles in store only to surplus most of them without ever being re-issued when they adopted the M1 Garand and various modifications of that rifle based on NATO calibers. Unscrupulous importers and dealers in those years sold many Carcanos as 'axis mausers' and bent the bolt handles to more closely resemble German rifles of the WW2 era. Many, if not most Infantry Rifle Carcanos encountered today will have these bent bolts. A bent bolt in an Infantry Rifle is not a desired trait by collectors. Carbine versions of the Carcano, however, usually had bent bolts and should not be seen as detrimental to value.
Most carcanos refurbished in the later years of service in Italy will be a mixed bag of parts with blonde looking stocks, poor blueing jobs, and many markings scrubbed out. Earlier and even late war refurbished rifles, however, often retain most of their original parts. Sometimes, as is the case with this rifle, the original stock was retained and re-stamped matching over the old serial numbers after refurbishment. Dark stain was applied to the beech-wood to make the stock less visible in the field and most original markings are still visible. Such rifles are invariably more sought after than the later, more crudely refurbished examples. Unrefurbished Carcanos are really quite rare rifles and will command a premium over refurbished examples if the condition is good. Most unrefurbished rifles encountered, however, will show considerable wear and abuse.
Rifles should be examined for the Tiro a Segno Nazionale marking mentioned above. Such rifles are exceedingly uncommon compared to a normal infantry rifle and are the closest thing to a scoped sniper rifle that Italy issued in the second world war. While Carcanos in general are not generally expensive surplus rifles today, future markets will certainly dictate a large premium for the TSN marked examples.
Despite gunshow lore, the Carcano is/was an excellent and robust rifle for its day and is perfectly safe to fire if in good condition. Stories of its inaccuracy are mostly attributed to undersized bullets in 1960's era sporting ammunition - a concern not valid today with correctly dimensioned ammunition and components available. Like the Arisaka, the Carcano has proved not to be the weak-actioned pariahs they were once thought to be. Somewhat poorly constructed parts rifles in the 1960's and earlier with dubiously attached barrels sold through chains like Sears, Bannerman's and Eatons likely contributed to this undeserved infamy.
Collectors should be on the lookout for original Italian slings which are very rare today - usually costing more than the rifle. Bayonets are also priced high as most do not survive today, having been melted for scrap when the rifles were surplused. ...... (Feedback by 'Claven2')
NambuWorld: Type I Rifle—The “Japanese Carcano”
The Type I rifle is a strange hybridwith an interesting history. The Imperial Japanese Army controlled the arsenalsthat made small arms and got priority in deliveries. When the war in
The left side.
Modern family season 1 to 6 complete download torrent. The top of the action shows it is quitedifferent from the Type 38. Further down the page I show comparative photos.
This is the action “at rest”, i.e. uncocked.
Here it is cocked…
The serial numbers on these guns area letter from A to N followed by four digits. There is some controversy overthe number of these rifles that were produced, since the number of letterstimes 9999 far exceeds the generally-accepted production figure of 60,000. Therifles are almost devoid of any other markings. In particular, there are noJapanese markings on them.
On mine there is this 03 on the top rear partof the action.
Terni Carcano Rifle Serial Numbers 22
This is the bolt. One author hassuggested that the reason many of these guns were warehoused was that theextractors and bolt handles were too brittle and prone to breakage, but thisview seems to have been based on anecdotal evidence and had not yet beenproven.
The underside of the bolt handle hasthe letters PB, which may stand for Pietro Beretta, one of the manufacturers. Itcould also be a proof mark, although it is not listed as an Italian proof markin “The Standard Directory of Proof Marks”. You can also see a faint trace of acrown where the handle joins the bolt body. It is upside down and looks like ahalf-hearted attempt was made to remove it.
The same PB in stamped on the front face of thesafety.
The ball on the end of the bolt handle also hasa small crown on top.
The shaft of the bolt has this small mark thatcould be an N or a Z.
Terni Rifle Markings
One of the conditions of thecontract with the Italians was that the rifle had to accommodate the standardJapanese Type 30 bayonet. Here you can see that a Type 30 bayonet fits easilyonto this rifle.
Now let’s compare the two rifles:Type I on top, Type 38 below. In this photo the Type 38 has its dust coverinstalled, but the Type I lacks any provision for this part. The Type 38 isslightly longer. The trigger guard on the Type I islarger and more square. The groove in the side of the stock is longer and morepronounced on the Type 38. The front sights are different, too—more on thatbelow. Both have the two-piece stock typically found on Japanese rifles.
The rear sights are pretty similar, althoughthe Type I (on the left) has a notch sight rather than the peep sight used onthe Type 38 (right).
This side view shows that difference better.
The Type I on the left has no wingsto protect the front sight, while the Type 38 sight on the right does have theprotectors. However, some Type 38s were made without the protective wings aswell.
An overall view of the tops of theactions of both rifles shows a variety of differences. Besides the rear of thebolt, the Type I (upper part of photo) has a channel all along the top of thereceiver, while the Type 38 below it has a bridge in front of the bolt. TheType 38 has a bolt release at the left rear of the receiver, while the Type I lacksthis mechanism (you just hold the trigger back to release the bolt). The Type Ialso lacks the vent holes in the top of the receiverthat the Type 38 has (these holes allow gases to be vented safely upwards inthe event of a primer or case head rupture).
Here is a closer view of just the rear parts ofthe actions, Type I on the left and Type 38 on the right.
Here the bolts are removed so you can seeinside. Type I on top, Type 38 below.
The tops of the butt plates aredifferent. The Type I butt plate just barely wraps around the top, while theType 38 extends further along the top and has a retaining screw there.
When I get a Carcano I will expandthis section with a comparison and some pictures of the Type I and standardCarcano bolts disassembled.
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Last updated: June 11, 2006